The kicker is Mr. Eternal down on the pier with his accordion is, in fact, the very folklorist involved in pushing the notion of Hobby Horse as incredibly ancient.
Hahahaha. I love the invention of tradition, something I feel like the UK really perfected. Morris dancing! Tartans! And now the Padstow Hobby Horse...in one of Jenkin's films, there is a Cornish language poetry night, the language has an interesting sound, kind of flat in tone...how much has it been reconstructed i wonder? I really dont know...
The line about genre being smarter than the writer using it is the one I'll be borrowing, and probably not crediting properly.
On the Mesopotamian side there's a detail that might sharpen the Adorno reading. In Enūma eliš the primordial sea is doubled — Apsû the fresh water, Tiamat the salt — and Ea kills Apsû and then builds his dwelling on top of him. The hero doesn't leave the chaos behind, he moves in above it. And the Ugaritic Lôtān of the Baal cycle turns up almost verbatim as liwyātān in Isaiah 27:1, so there's a traceable path rather than a bubbling-up. What gets me is that Enki, lord of that same freshwater deep, is also the god who shapes people out of clay. The water is where the chaos lives and where the workshop is.
If genre is already a kind of AI, when did it become executable? Propp and the pulp house style sheets, or were the rhapsodes running it all along?
Wonderful questions! I must admit I stole that good line about genre from an old college pal who know teaches music at Stanford, Charles Kronenberg...he said it as an undergrad and it always stuck with me...now with AI it makes sense! And thanks for the myth dump, I had forgotten about the fresh vs salt water tension. Cant put that chaos down!
This is so excellent and illuminating. It didn't occur to me that Nolan's decision to anchor the cameras to that boat (to avoid giving motion sickness to IMAX viewers?) was responsible for the effect you describe. But I wonder if that's part of what made Odysseus' subsequent one-man "Wreck-of-the-Medusa" routine more jarring, since it literalized the psychology of surrender/submission to a Higher Power at the cost of the realism the film cleaves to elsewhere. (Clearly, that man would be dead in 3 minutes). Also: I effing *loved* "Godland," so "The Love That Remains" is now on my list.
I did think about that set-up for the solo Odysseus ride, I wonder if that much thought was put into it...Apparently Palmason has made two other movies between Godland and the new one, I am going to watch them because I can now recognize elements of his core style and sensibility from the ones I have seen and I like it even more.
Greatly enjoyed reading your cultural dot connecting and analyses inspired by Nolan's "Odyssey", a brilliant film adaptation for me in many ways. My next big cinematic excitement is the 4k restoration of "The Devils" (running for a week starting 10/16), and I look forward to your in-depth take on that production as well!
No details yet, other than starting 10/16, and probably AMC and Regal so far. Shown at Cannes this year and super well-received including by Guillermo Del Toro.
"Ulysses enacts the modern alienated calculating self, the spirit of Enlightenment, wresting itself out of the primeval mindmeld of ancient time represented by the monsters and challenges Ulysses encounters on his voyage home."
In this vein one of my favorite interpretations of Homer's Odyssey is that the encounter between Odysseus and his men with the cyclops represents a more "modern" civilization colliding with an idigenous culture. In this case the more modern Greeks do what civilizations often do when dealing with indigenous people: It is the old story of plying the natives with alcohol, tricking them, and then enacting violence.
Indeed. It is striking: the longer you sit with it, the more modern the Odyssey seems. I had planned to say more about Adorno, whose take on Ulysses rhymes with some of Nolan's actually -- the gods are barely present for both. Except for his chats with Athena, Nolan's Ulysses is anti-supernatural, describes Poseidon's beef with him as something his men perceive. Also Adorno's Ulysses is also not very fun loving, since he is burdened with the alienation and calculation of the modern self.
Nice deep dives! I will have to check out The Fisherman! Your talk of the ironic dance in genre reminds me of Paul LaFarge's "The Night Ocean," a really great meta-Lovecraftian novel (even Burroughs makes a cameo).
For more of the "eternal Cornishman" myth, try the 1951 documentary on the Padstow Hobby Horse: https://youtu.be/ISO1QmG_VE4?si=d_uyAYHJOaTUXTaz
The kicker is Mr. Eternal down on the pier with his accordion is, in fact, the very folklorist involved in pushing the notion of Hobby Horse as incredibly ancient.
Hahahaha. I love the invention of tradition, something I feel like the UK really perfected. Morris dancing! Tartans! And now the Padstow Hobby Horse...in one of Jenkin's films, there is a Cornish language poetry night, the language has an interesting sound, kind of flat in tone...how much has it been reconstructed i wonder? I really dont know...
The line about genre being smarter than the writer using it is the one I'll be borrowing, and probably not crediting properly.
On the Mesopotamian side there's a detail that might sharpen the Adorno reading. In Enūma eliš the primordial sea is doubled — Apsû the fresh water, Tiamat the salt — and Ea kills Apsû and then builds his dwelling on top of him. The hero doesn't leave the chaos behind, he moves in above it. And the Ugaritic Lôtān of the Baal cycle turns up almost verbatim as liwyātān in Isaiah 27:1, so there's a traceable path rather than a bubbling-up. What gets me is that Enki, lord of that same freshwater deep, is also the god who shapes people out of clay. The water is where the chaos lives and where the workshop is.
If genre is already a kind of AI, when did it become executable? Propp and the pulp house style sheets, or were the rhapsodes running it all along?
Wonderful questions! I must admit I stole that good line about genre from an old college pal who know teaches music at Stanford, Charles Kronenberg...he said it as an undergrad and it always stuck with me...now with AI it makes sense! And thanks for the myth dump, I had forgotten about the fresh vs salt water tension. Cant put that chaos down!
Thank you Erik :-)
(And of course, thanks so much for the shout-out and link.)
This is so excellent and illuminating. It didn't occur to me that Nolan's decision to anchor the cameras to that boat (to avoid giving motion sickness to IMAX viewers?) was responsible for the effect you describe. But I wonder if that's part of what made Odysseus' subsequent one-man "Wreck-of-the-Medusa" routine more jarring, since it literalized the psychology of surrender/submission to a Higher Power at the cost of the realism the film cleaves to elsewhere. (Clearly, that man would be dead in 3 minutes). Also: I effing *loved* "Godland," so "The Love That Remains" is now on my list.
I did think about that set-up for the solo Odysseus ride, I wonder if that much thought was put into it...Apparently Palmason has made two other movies between Godland and the new one, I am going to watch them because I can now recognize elements of his core style and sensibility from the ones I have seen and I like it even more.
Greatly enjoyed reading your cultural dot connecting and analyses inspired by Nolan's "Odyssey", a brilliant film adaptation for me in many ways. My next big cinematic excitement is the 4k restoration of "The Devils" (running for a week starting 10/16), and I look forward to your in-depth take on that production as well!
Yowza, I have actually never seen the Devils but I think I would enjoy it. Where is it showing? Seems like a big screen winner.
No details yet, other than starting 10/16, and probably AMC and Regal so far. Shown at Cannes this year and super well-received including by Guillermo Del Toro.
"Ulysses enacts the modern alienated calculating self, the spirit of Enlightenment, wresting itself out of the primeval mindmeld of ancient time represented by the monsters and challenges Ulysses encounters on his voyage home."
In this vein one of my favorite interpretations of Homer's Odyssey is that the encounter between Odysseus and his men with the cyclops represents a more "modern" civilization colliding with an idigenous culture. In this case the more modern Greeks do what civilizations often do when dealing with indigenous people: It is the old story of plying the natives with alcohol, tricking them, and then enacting violence.
Indeed. It is striking: the longer you sit with it, the more modern the Odyssey seems. I had planned to say more about Adorno, whose take on Ulysses rhymes with some of Nolan's actually -- the gods are barely present for both. Except for his chats with Athena, Nolan's Ulysses is anti-supernatural, describes Poseidon's beef with him as something his men perceive. Also Adorno's Ulysses is also not very fun loving, since he is burdened with the alienation and calculation of the modern self.
Nice deep dives! I will have to check out The Fisherman! Your talk of the ironic dance in genre reminds me of Paul LaFarge's "The Night Ocean," a really great meta-Lovecraftian novel (even Burroughs makes a cameo).
Thanks for the tip! And the title suggests a continuation of the sea theme...